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f311a 12 hours ago [-]
I hope they will put more resources into fixing issues.
I remember there were multiple attempts to add it to ClickBench, but each time new bugs were found.
> It was loading the data for a week already, and the speed of loading data has dropped to 4 kilobytes per second, and it will take years to load the dataset.
And then on 2nd of August
> It loaded maybe 1% of the data so far.
And then one year after
> I didn't load the data after a year.
> I tried it with the fsync removed, but even then it does not work
Ok, I find this more entertaining than I should and almost unbelievable. I know that this codebase was heavily written by LLMs but the execution can't be this bad?
What am I missing and why would Supabase buy the product which can't even load the dataset properly?
gpm 11 hours ago [-]
You're looking at a software project months after its inception, saying it didn't work well then, and then asking why someone would buy it well over a year later...
Also hilarious that the rebuttal comment after a year had passed was "why are you using this release which is a year old"
gpm 11 hours ago [-]
That rebuttal comment was posted in response to a comment that was 4 days old, not a year old.
penberg 10 hours ago [-]
We're aware of your woes with ClickBench. The first time you added it I even explicitly told you that it was way too early to even try that. The attempt you did recently was fair, but it's all in the ingestion before the benchmark, and does not show up anywhere, so we ended up spending time on this instead:
In any case, this is on our radar and we do intend to improve it but not the highest priority right now.
dangoodmanUT 11 hours ago [-]
> Add Turso (it is unbelievably slow) (it also does not work)
Ah Alexey, never change
f311a 11 hours ago [-]
Another PR:
> Turso - it is ridiculously slow, can't believe that: revert the single-transaction import, cap per-query wall-clock
JoshTriplett 11 hours ago [-]
I really, really hope that Turso survives this, and doesn't become another "incredible journey". I'm excited about Turso as a technology, both as a better sqlite and as something theoretically capable of becoming an embeddable postgres-compatible database.
glommer 9 hours ago [-]
I hear you Josh, and I don't blame you because this does happen a lot. All I can say is that everyone is excited about this, on both sides of the aisle. From our perspective we'll have resources now to turbocharge the development of Turso, and things will only get better from here.
JoshTriplett 8 hours ago [-]
I wish you the best of luck in beating the odds and actually continuing to operate effectively post-acquisition for as long as possible. Turso is great, and I'm looking forward to the point where it feels like it crosses from "keep a close eye on" to "use in production with no qualms".
nazgulsenpai 10 hours ago [-]
I have only ever interfaced with sqlite querying databases created by other applications so I'm not really super familiar with the application development side of it, but I've only ever heard praise of sqlite. Out of pure curiosity, what would a better sqlite look like, aside from postgres compatibility mentioned?
JoshTriplett 10 hours ago [-]
More async, more concurrency, more dialects (not just postgres), better defaults, ability to be called from safe languages without going by way of an unsafe FFI layer, open community...
theLiminator 8 hours ago [-]
Yeah, I've seen a lot of technology killed by acquisitions...
This is a really interesting idea. I had never considered this before.
This would allow you to write PostgreSQL queries that work against a flat file or a Postgres server. Am I understanding the potential benefit correctly?
Supabase is a great product, we use it for all of our products, but we also need OSS solutions that can be self-hosted. For Supabase, I hope the platform improves. SQLite has become the standard, we need that standard (other than the SQL93 part) to be created and maintained so that other can drop a paid for product and handle the server-side themselves is the choose to.
apsurd 11 hours ago [-]
Agree. supabase is a great product for prototyping. Their free tier is really helpful. But the value of instant access to a real postgres db is also where inevitable pain comes from. A prototype is fun until it's not and I've never managed to maintain app-based side projects longer than a few months. Only static deployments survive.
Supabase was really early in the "throwaway full-stack environments" space. Very helpful but I find myself moving to edge networks with sqlite in spite of my dislike for javascript.
kakugawa 11 hours ago [-]
Isn't this what this sounds like? You self-host Turso at the start, and you can gracefully scale to managed Turso (cloud), then to managed Postgres (Supabase). And Turso has experimental support for a Postgres frontend (alongside the SQLite frontend).
saltcod 11 hours ago [-]
^ this is exactly the plan. An appropriate stack for each part of your journey.
The blog post captures it really well:
> As agents build more software, we believe database demand will outpace the world’s current capacity to support them. So we need infrastructure that can scale to meet this growth and is suited to how we build with agents.
> Agents should be able to create a database as easily as creating a file, with just as little concern about cost. For smaller workloads, that shouldn’t require provisioning a dedicated machine every time. Databases should be cheap to create, available on demand, and have a clear path to production when needed.
> SQLite is well suited to these small, on-demand workloads. Postgres is what you want as your application scales. We want builders to have the same developer experience from prototyping to production.
parthdesai 8 hours ago [-]
> then to managed Postgres (Supabase)
And then hopefully sharded Postgres via Multigres :crossedfingers:
kvirani 11 hours ago [-]
Sqlite has become the standard? I've been out for a couple years but this is news to me. What does it mean though? Standard for what?
apsurd 11 hours ago [-]
anecdotally I think this applies more specifically for 0-1 side-projects. They can be serious attempts at startups, but they start small and with AI the feedback loop should be rapid and fierce. For this you want lightweight infrastructure that the agent can reason about and not create a mess. So an edge network with sqlite is pretty killer.
dalton_zk 1 hours ago [-]
I'm very of this announcement, and I believe in the Turso Founders made this movement to start a new paragraph in Turso history, let's go!!
vmg12 12 hours ago [-]
This is great, I was a little worried that the turso project's future was tied to the success of turso the company and it has impacted a few of my technical choices and has resulted in me choosing sqlite over turso a few times.
I'll likely be choosing turso going forward for projects.
saltcod 11 hours ago [-]
More to come, but Turso remains a product and SQLite remains their focus. Supabase/Postgres is the path as workloads grow and require it.
(disclosure: I work at supabase)
aniceperson 12 hours ago [-]
? are you seriously preferring a vibe coded project over the war tested sqlite?
vmg12 12 hours ago [-]
1. I've looked at how Turso verifies the correctness of their db and I'm satisfied with it.
2. Turso supports features I want that don't exist and will not exist in sqlite.
I mean this is pretty obvious, I'm not using sqlite because it doesn't do what I want it to do. I also don't understand the repeated "sqlite is the best tested software" sentiment. I don't care if it's the best tested if it doesn't do what I want it to do.
Cyph0n 11 hours ago [-]
> don't care if it's the best tested if it doesn't do what I want it to do.
That’s an interesting tradeoff, especially if this is a production grade application. Curious: what features is SQLite missing?
vmg12 11 hours ago [-]
Support for multiple concurrent writers and a better search extension.
glommer 9 hours ago [-]
We started turso way before vibe coding became a thing, king.
And these days we use AI, like most people, but still review all the code ourselves before it goes in.
Very disingenuous to call turso a vibe coded project.
lukasschwab 4 hours ago [-]
SQLite/Turso probably offers a much better developer experience than Postgres for the overwhelming majority of projects on Supabase (especially for local testing and testing in ephemeral environments).
bel8 11 hours ago [-]
GGs to the team!
I'm a big fan of Glauber's work. He gives me the same neo-hacker vibe as Jarred, of Bun.
So this is pleasant news to me.
glommer 9 hours ago [-]
I shaved my head first, though.
Jarred is a copycat on that front.
theflyingelvis 12 hours ago [-]
I use Turso for a small project. Seems to work well. Hope this doesn’t change
arnath 12 hours ago [-]
Why would you rewrite something that’s widely considered one of the best written and tested pieces of software in the world?
JoshTriplett 11 hours ago [-]
Among many other things, they built a system that can provide substantially better concurrency and a better async story.
Also, they're building a project that's more open to outsiders.
digdugdirk 11 hours ago [-]
They were aiming for better concurrency, I believe. If you're rewriting something regardless, might as well use a more modern language that's easier to reason about during development.
levkk 12 hours ago [-]
That's how you push the field forward. Good isn't good enough.
turtlebits 11 hours ago [-]
If yiu had the resources/time, why wouldn't you challenge or improve status quo?
Sqlite is excellent but I still have many gripes with it, especially around defaults.
d1l 10 hours ago [-]
I think Richard Hipp has quipped “if you think you can build a better SQLite by god you’re welcome to try!”
SQLite 8 hours ago [-]
I do not recall ever saying that.
loufe 12 hours ago [-]
Best tested..? The test data/suite is private. That alone is quite odd.
shimman 11 hours ago [-]
It's not odd at all if you understand the purpose of SQLite's governance model. Much better than letting VC + SV rat fuck everything for solitary monetary gain.
JoshTriplett 11 hours ago [-]
> It's not odd at all if you understand the purpose of SQLite's governance model.
The purpose of SQLite's governance model is to be a cult, that only accepts members who share the same religion.
The software happens to be good. Getting it away from that governance and turning it into an open community sounds great. And that can happen while still maintaining high standards.
shimman 9 hours ago [-]
No, this is just sour grapes because you clearly disagree with people that don't adhere to your ideology. Thank fuck for that, people like you are why devs get burnt out.
JoshTriplett 9 hours ago [-]
I meant "cult" quite literally, not hyperbolically. They literally filter acceptable developers based on religion.
chambers 9 hours ago [-]
I haven't heard a cult literally defined as "any group that filters based on their religion". The definition most people have is https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/cult which implies coercion, manipulation, extremism.
Can you explain your view more? Otherwise, this sounds like a motte-and-bailey game.
JoshTriplett 8 hours ago [-]
A church is commonly expected to filter on religion (somewhat, many welcome respectful outsiders). A software project filtering on religion is very different. One common aspect of cults is pervading every aspect of people's lives, including their work ("company store" style).
Full acknowledgement for the fact that the line between "religion" and "cult" is blurry, but "all developers of this project must share a common religion and agree to these monastic religious tenets" sure ticks some boxes on "extremism".
They are, of course, free to do so; freedom of association is their right. Others are free to judge them for it, and to question whether they should be using the resulting software. The license is open, the community is not. So, seeing a project come along that looks to build something more open (and it's really saying something when "project whose governance is owned by a company, but open to pull requests" is more open) seems like a positive step.
(Also, as a database project, surely they shouldn't be mixing church and state. ;) )
dd8601fn 12 hours ago [-]
The Rust rewrite? I had the same question.
It’s fast, with unparalleled stability, arguably better managed than any other software on earth, deployed on literally everything, so let’s… fork it for street cred?
smt88 11 hours ago [-]
Rewriting in Rust is usually an exercise in reducing serious security vulnerabilities and memory bugs, not improving speed or stability.
But with LLMs and massive, human-written test suites, rewrites aren’t a bad idea like they used to be. Rust is a perfect target language because it’s compiler is so strict and surfaces issues in a way that’s easy for either humans or LLMs to use.
kvirani 11 hours ago [-]
Something tells me the test suites won't be human written, for most of them. They probably won't be fully human reviewed even.
smt88 9 hours ago [-]
For existing, mature projects like SQLite, the tests are human-written.
Even if they weren’t, LLMs are pretty good at writing tests because of Github being in their training sets. I rarely find that their tests are bad unless I underspecified what the project is supposed to do.
Disclaimer that I only vibe-code for personal projects, so I haven’t tested this at business scale.
duped 11 hours ago [-]
Another way of describing Turso is a SQLite-compatible (same file format and C API) embedded database. If you start with SQLite but find you need async i/o, concurrent writers, and local replicas then Turso is a good option.
shimman 11 hours ago [-]
Because they wanted something like this story to happen. It's what VC does to open source, they aren't here to help or build communities they are here to make money. Nothing else matters.
glommer 9 hours ago [-]
it's funny, because money is the number 1,000 or even lower thing on my priorities.
Turso has a booming OSS community with many contributors from outside the company and is fully MIT.
SchwKatze 11 hours ago [-]
Congrats! The team is very based and I've learned a lot contributing to Turso, amazing people
vira28 8 hours ago [-]
I know it’s hard. My previous Postgres startup did fail.
IMHO, Turso spent a lot of time on rewrites and what’s possible instead of finding PMF.
jackwsmth 13 hours ago [-]
Always been a fan of Supabase, but didn't expect this. Curious to see what comes of it!
brainless 12 hours ago [-]
I do not feel good about this. I really want SQLite (and the Turso re-write of it) to win for tiny apps that people will build more and more with LLMs. Desktop or server. Even serverless.
The core tech is open source so that is good. Will it stay? I guess Turso hosting was not making enough revenue?
glommer 12 hours ago [-]
Turso CEO here.
We were doing fine.
This is a strategic acquisition and I fell in love with the vision Supabase had for how they would use Turso going forward.
More to come
brainless 12 hours ago [-]
Thanks but you do understand this makes it hard for folks to select Turso. With all good intentions parent companies kill acquisitions.
Supabase is hosted Postgres with wings. Turso seemed like it would be the same but using SQLite based approach.
So either Supabase now uses the Turso sync + Postgres or something that needs Turso or abandons it. Not sure and I am not asking, just sharing my thoughts.
Love what you folks have been doing.
glommer 4 hours ago [-]
No, I truly don't understand that.
It is true that some acquisitions fail, but most of the ones you see failing are doomed from the start and are a way for the founder to exit, acquhire, etc.
I had a never-ending host of options at my hand. Turso grew revenue > 5x this year. I had no reason to accept an offer that wouldn't have a great chance of success.
threatofrain 11 hours ago [-]
I also have my own doubts about this acquisition, but as I explore sqlite-per-user models I'm also seeing benefits to having some central control plane. I thought they would've made a natural fit on Cloudflare.
christoff12 11 hours ago [-]
Did you check out the post? Supabase sees Turso as the answer to workloads not well-suited for Postgres. This seems like a decent Yes, And proposition.
LtdJorge 11 hours ago [-]
Or Supabase starts offering "SQLite" (Turso) as they are offering PG today?
saltcod 11 hours ago [-]
yup — we see Turso/SQLite as complementary to Postgres for specific use cases. The blog post doesn't mention it yet, but this will power our smallest instance — "Spark" https://x.com/saltcod/status/2106078176464036044
ezekg 12 hours ago [-]
> I guess Turso hosting was not making enough revenue?
I would guess it's more that the founders want to exit before AI replaces them. (Based on the doom-and-gloom narrative in tech right now...)
brainless 12 hours ago [-]
I am fully onboard with LLM generated code if that is what you mean. I literally get client work titled "Need Claude led Engineer". SQLite is a great option for the LLM enabled future.
glommer 12 hours ago [-]
lol
pmbauer 12 hours ago [-]
> Turso will continue operating, with a clear path into the broader Supabase ecosystem as workloads grow.
brainless 12 hours ago [-]
You mean, it has never happened that an acquiring company said this and then closed the acquired tech?
pmbauer 9 hours ago [-]
I has happened, but supabase has a history of keeping things open source and Turso keeping its sqlite-focused mission is the plan.
(disclaimer, supabase employee)
glommer 4 hours ago [-]
Rob told me you were at Supabase now and I am STOKED to work together again, Paul!
rvz 12 hours ago [-]
> The core tech is open source so that is good. Will it stay? I guess Turso hosting was not making enough revenue?
You just answered your own question. Why would anyone pay for Turso if the core of the software is available for free and being licenced permissively under MIT?
_bohm 12 hours ago [-]
Because they don't want to self-host/manage it. It looks like this is an acquisition, not an acquihire, so it's unclear whether or not Turso was making enough to sustain itself or not. There are plenty of companies out there who release open source software and make money off of hosted/managed offerings of it.
glommer 12 hours ago [-]
Turso CEO here.
We were doing fine.
This is a strategic acquisition and I fell in love with the vision Supabase had for how they would use Turso going forward.
More to come
ezekg 12 hours ago [-]
Liability. Compliance. Chain-of-responsibility. Risk. This has always been the case in business, and it will continue to be the case (at least until artificial intelligence actually replaces that need).
brainless 12 hours ago [-]
Huh? Supabase is also that. Lots of tech is like this. Parent company makes money from hosting, services, enterprise feature seats, etc.
kearon 10 hours ago [-]
I’ve been watching Turso for a while. A very exciting project, and I’m excited to see what comes with the acquisition (especially seeing as Glauber’s stoked by it.)
glommer 4 hours ago [-]
I certainly am! A large part of the reason this happened is that I sat down with Paul, and he shared his vision with me for what he wanted to do with Turso and how that would fit the supabase story. Very exciting!
sarkarghya 10 hours ago [-]
We're seeing a lot of acquisitions in this space. First Electric (pglite) was acquired by DataBricks (Neon) now this.
buckleyourshoe 12 hours ago [-]
We use Turso for async in Rust projects. It's performance has been very good. Looking forward to what comes from this
orliesaurus 11 hours ago [-]
Any guesses on how much they paid?
mhalikosen 12 hours ago [-]
I didn't know the company, but it turns out they have a great mindset.
polyterative 11 hours ago [-]
Could be fun.made product on top of it.Pro plan is still too much, but free quota is too little.having a hard time balancing my hobby project.Still there's not really many alternatives, so probably we'll stick with it.Decent service.
kaoD 11 hours ago [-]
By "it" you mean Turso? Maybe you can help since I don't understand what they offer. What does Turso do that SQLite doesn't?
12 hours ago [-]
FLeXMurphy 12 hours ago [-]
it's glommer
popalchemist 12 hours ago [-]
I feel like this makes a lot of sense and is a rare win-win-win (supabase-turso-customers being the parties).
rvz 12 hours ago [-]
Open source never pays the bills, nor do users here ever pay for open source.
glommer 12 hours ago [-]
our cloud pays the bill just fine though.
lpgauth 12 hours ago [-]
Congrats Glauber!
glommer 12 hours ago [-]
thank you!
patrick_rtk 11 hours ago [-]
nide for a rust project !
kilroy123 12 hours ago [-]
UGH as a turso customer, I do not want this.
glommer 12 hours ago [-]
Write me a message to my email directly or hit me up on Discord.
We are very excited to be a part of Supabase
blackrainbowlab 12 hours ago [-]
[dead]
mhalikosen 12 hours ago [-]
Hayırlı olsun
autoturk 7 hours ago [-]
Allah bereket versin.
drewbitt 12 hours ago [-]
Nooooooooo
codedump 2 hours ago [-]
Personally, I think SQLite is good enough, but in the current agent era, it doesn’t seem good enough anymore. For example, while I was writing semquery (https://github.com/lichuang/semquery), I kept looking for an embedded database that could simultaneously support SQL queries, vector queries, and graph database functionality. SQLite makes this a bit difficult. Maybe this Turso is worth looking into.
It should not be X times slower than SQLite.
https://github.com/ClickHouse/ClickBench/issues/336
https://github.com/ClickHouse/ClickBench/pull/1009
> It was loading the data for a week already, and the speed of loading data has dropped to 4 kilobytes per second, and it will take years to load the dataset.
And then on 2nd of August
> It loaded maybe 1% of the data so far.
And then one year after
> I didn't load the data after a year. > I tried it with the fsync removed, but even then it does not work
Ok, I find this more entertaining than I should and almost unbelievable. I know that this codebase was heavily written by LLMs but the execution can't be this bad?
What am I missing and why would Supabase buy the product which can't even load the dataset properly?
So, I think my curiosity still stands.
Yeah, ok, I took the date from [1] but you're right the project did in some sense exist before then.
[1] https://turso.tech/blog/we-will-rewrite-sqlite-and-we-are-go...
https://turso.tech/blog/turso-0.8.0
In any case, this is on our radar and we do intend to improve it but not the highest priority right now.
Ah Alexey, never change
> Turso - it is ridiculously slow, can't believe that: revert the single-transaction import, cap per-query wall-clock
For example, https://github.com/Mooncake-Labs/pg_mooncake
This would allow you to write PostgreSQL queries that work against a flat file or a Postgres server. Am I understanding the potential benefit correctly?
Supabase was really early in the "throwaway full-stack environments" space. Very helpful but I find myself moving to edge networks with sqlite in spite of my dislike for javascript.
The blog post captures it really well:
> As agents build more software, we believe database demand will outpace the world’s current capacity to support them. So we need infrastructure that can scale to meet this growth and is suited to how we build with agents.
> Agents should be able to create a database as easily as creating a file, with just as little concern about cost. For smaller workloads, that shouldn’t require provisioning a dedicated machine every time. Databases should be cheap to create, available on demand, and have a clear path to production when needed.
> SQLite is well suited to these small, on-demand workloads. Postgres is what you want as your application scales. We want builders to have the same developer experience from prototyping to production.
And then hopefully sharded Postgres via Multigres :crossedfingers:
I'll likely be choosing turso going forward for projects.
(disclosure: I work at supabase)
2. Turso supports features I want that don't exist and will not exist in sqlite.
I mean this is pretty obvious, I'm not using sqlite because it doesn't do what I want it to do. I also don't understand the repeated "sqlite is the best tested software" sentiment. I don't care if it's the best tested if it doesn't do what I want it to do.
That’s an interesting tradeoff, especially if this is a production grade application. Curious: what features is SQLite missing?
Very disingenuous to call turso a vibe coded project.
I'm a big fan of Glauber's work. He gives me the same neo-hacker vibe as Jarred, of Bun.
So this is pleasant news to me.
Jarred is a copycat on that front.
Also, they're building a project that's more open to outsiders.
Sqlite is excellent but I still have many gripes with it, especially around defaults.
The purpose of SQLite's governance model is to be a cult, that only accepts members who share the same religion.
The software happens to be good. Getting it away from that governance and turning it into an open community sounds great. And that can happen while still maintaining high standards.
Can you explain your view more? Otherwise, this sounds like a motte-and-bailey game.
Full acknowledgement for the fact that the line between "religion" and "cult" is blurry, but "all developers of this project must share a common religion and agree to these monastic religious tenets" sure ticks some boxes on "extremism".
They are, of course, free to do so; freedom of association is their right. Others are free to judge them for it, and to question whether they should be using the resulting software. The license is open, the community is not. So, seeing a project come along that looks to build something more open (and it's really saying something when "project whose governance is owned by a company, but open to pull requests" is more open) seems like a positive step.
(Also, as a database project, surely they shouldn't be mixing church and state. ;) )
It’s fast, with unparalleled stability, arguably better managed than any other software on earth, deployed on literally everything, so let’s… fork it for street cred?
But with LLMs and massive, human-written test suites, rewrites aren’t a bad idea like they used to be. Rust is a perfect target language because it’s compiler is so strict and surfaces issues in a way that’s easy for either humans or LLMs to use.
Even if they weren’t, LLMs are pretty good at writing tests because of Github being in their training sets. I rarely find that their tests are bad unless I underspecified what the project is supposed to do.
Disclaimer that I only vibe-code for personal projects, so I haven’t tested this at business scale.
Turso has a booming OSS community with many contributors from outside the company and is fully MIT.
IMHO, Turso spent a lot of time on rewrites and what’s possible instead of finding PMF.
The core tech is open source so that is good. Will it stay? I guess Turso hosting was not making enough revenue?
This is a strategic acquisition and I fell in love with the vision Supabase had for how they would use Turso going forward.
More to come
Supabase is hosted Postgres with wings. Turso seemed like it would be the same but using SQLite based approach.
So either Supabase now uses the Turso sync + Postgres or something that needs Turso or abandons it. Not sure and I am not asking, just sharing my thoughts.
Love what you folks have been doing.
I had a never-ending host of options at my hand. Turso grew revenue > 5x this year. I had no reason to accept an offer that wouldn't have a great chance of success.
I would guess it's more that the founders want to exit before AI replaces them. (Based on the doom-and-gloom narrative in tech right now...)
(disclaimer, supabase employee)
You just answered your own question. Why would anyone pay for Turso if the core of the software is available for free and being licenced permissively under MIT?
We were doing fine.
This is a strategic acquisition and I fell in love with the vision Supabase had for how they would use Turso going forward.
More to come
We are very excited to be a part of Supabase